Matt (00:01.222)
Hello and welcome back to Popcorn and Plot Hoars.
Luciano (00:06.24)
Hello?
John Havoc (00:06.589)
Good to be here.
Matt (00:11.0)
We have been gone forever because Spencer fell down a hole, which was the construction that was done to his house.
Luciano (00:21.56)
We were also mourning the loss of Chris. Not that he died, but he left. This is now a Chris-less podcast. Chris...
Matt (00:23.694)
Yes, that too. He's dead to us.
John Havoc (00:30.471)
world.
Matt (00:30.694)
Is that the way? Chris Free? World, damn. Okay.
John Havoc (00:34.781)
He also went in the hole.
Matt (00:39.366)
Anyways, don't don't look for Spencer's holes. That's all I'm saying.
Luciano (00:43.291)
Hahaha!
Matt (00:45.19)
This week we have watched the 2025 Luis Guzman vehicle Havoc.
Luciano (00:50.606)
That casting was made perfect for you. For this.
John Havoc (00:56.549)
Yeah, for this.
Matt (00:57.254)
I loved it.
John Havoc (00:59.869)
I love me a good Louise Guzman appearance. It did come out of left field.
Matt (01:04.304)
Yeah, it's his greatest role since Journey to the Center of the Earth, I think.
Luciano (01:06.977)
Yeah.
John Havoc (01:10.065)
Nah,
Matt (01:17.766)
Oh yeah, yeah, that's a good one. With me as always, because Chris is gone, Luciano.
Luciano (01:25.414)
I'm only here because he's gone. I see how it is. Happy to fill in, I guess.
John Havoc (01:26.471)
Hahaha!
Matt (01:27.29)
Yep. Yep.
John Havoc (01:29.501)
What yeah, no he gave us an ultimatum Chris we chose poorly Yeah, yeah, he said you failed the test I don't know what he meant
Matt (01:35.896)
Yeah.
Luciano (01:37.144)
Ha
Luciano (01:40.59)
And everyone said Chris and is like, I'm out. Even I said Chris.
Matt (01:44.71)
Yeah, we picked Chris and he's like, no, no, thanks. I don't want to. I don't want anymore. Yeah. didn't. He just stopped talking to me and walked away. and first time, long time Spencer.
Luciano (01:51.95)
Ha
John Havoc (01:57.693)
It's good to be back in this this crystal show I Missed you guys
Luciano (02:05.218)
Hahaha
Luciano (02:10.648)
Did you?
John Havoc (02:12.3)
That's it. There's no joke here. Yeah, the person I miss most with Chris. Yeah, the rude awakening. Well, I gotta go. See ya.
Matt (02:13.872)
Great. where's the punchline? Yeah.
Luciano (02:14.046)
Okay. Yeah, weird the punchline.
Matt (02:25.362)
Hey, well, this is awkward. Hey, Spencer, I don't know if you know this until right now, but Chris stopped being on the podcast. sorry. Yeah. Surprise announcement. This is Spencer's last podcast, everybody.
Luciano (02:27.501)
Don't we all?
Luciano (02:40.832)
Or dropping like flies.
John Havoc (02:40.997)
I also gave an ultimatum. It curses here or I'm not. This podcast is full of ultimatums.
Matt (02:43.526)
We chose poorly. don't know. Let's not dwell on Spencer leaving. Let's talk about Havoc, the 2025 Tom Hardy movie that stars Tom Hardy. Allegedly. Netflix.
Luciano (02:49.232)
Hahaha
John Havoc (02:58.073)
Netflix not Netflix original Netflix bought I guess
Luciano (02:58.689)
Allegedly.
Matt (03:03.632)
Yeah, well, mean, sure. Yeah, like what is a Netflix original anyways? Like they and they pay for production.
Luciano (03:04.951)
is it? Okay.
John Havoc (03:08.167)
I think a Netflix original is like, yeah, think it's like they're, they've either been on a movie and buy the rights to it or they'll like make it. I don't even know if they make movies. I think they just buy the rights to movies. They make series, you know, like Stranger Things.
Matt (03:22.378)
Yeah, I'm not sure they spend.
Luciano (03:23.244)
No, they made that racist Will Smith movie where orcs are black people and elves are Jews and all that stuff. Bright, yes, bright, That was Mr. Bright's in the way.
John Havoc (03:27.645)
You're gonna have to narrow it down.
Matt (03:32.231)
yeah, Bright, Bright? Brightside? Mr. Brightside?
John Havoc (03:35.773)
Well.
Mr. Brightside the movie. Let's go.
Matt (03:42.062)
Yeah, they adapted a three-minute song into a feature-like film.
Luciano (03:42.542)
Is it just some guy nailing some other guy's girlfriend? that what that is? Okay.
John Havoc (03:47.909)
Yeah, smoking. Well, smoking.
Matt (03:50.438)
Yeah, basically. this is, Spencer's right, like this was written and directed by Gareth Evans. He of, I believe it's Raid fame.
John Havoc (04:04.253)
that's why the action was so good.
Matt (04:06.992)
Is that the right movie? I'm just looking here again.
John Havoc (04:08.763)
Yes, I it is. I heard that before. Did he make the Godzilla movie?
Matt (04:12.154)
or the raid. Is it Raid? No, no, that's Gareth Edwards.
John Havoc (04:17.403)
Yeah, see I get that mixed up.
Luciano (04:20.006)
I can see why, I thought you said the same thing twice.
Matt (04:22.896)
Gareth Edwards is he did the batch. What was that movie we watched with the super cool tank?
John Havoc (04:29.851)
Is he the guy who stars in Tron?
Luciano (04:31.564)
a super cool tank.
Matt (04:35.472)
creator.
Luciano (04:36.402)
We... Oh! Oh no. Oh no.
John Havoc (04:36.733)
did he make that?
Matt (04:38.436)
Yeah. So Gareth Edwards, not Evans. So not the guy who directed this movie. He did Godzilla. He did the creator. He did Rogue One. That's all him. And Gareth Evans, outside of the raid, Gangs of London, he did 25 episodes of that as a producer.
Luciano (04:44.354)
The Gareth Brothers.
Luciano (04:59.47)
Okay. Wait, Garen, the other Gareth made Rogue One? That's a credit.
Matt (05:04.996)
Yeah, Gareth Edwards. Yeah, Gareth Edwards is a pretty famous director and Gareth Evans did the raid.
Luciano (05:13.568)
wow, what a way through so shaded the other dude.
Matt (05:16.518)
Like, but he's only directed nine things. So it's like, it's like footsteps. Don't know what that is. Uh, Mara and not to don't know what that is. The raid redemption. Uh, maybe, uh, the raid redemption. did VHS two. He did the raid too. He did previs action. He did apostle. Uh, he did gangs of London. He did five episodes of a TV series and havoc. Um,
Luciano (05:19.233)
Okay.
Luciano (05:25.482)
Marinato? Is that the Italian Nostra Rado Dowsing Marinara sauce? Is that what that is?
John Havoc (05:30.333)
You
Luciano (05:33.609)
Marin no.
Luciano (05:45.675)
Okay.
Matt (05:47.546)
Maradatsu looks like it may be...
Luciano (05:50.988)
He's an Italian vampire who drinks marinara sauce and not blood. That's what that is.
Matt (05:56.87)
you were that's probably not racist. I want to talk about Havoc though because that's what we're here for. Let's, hey, we're supposed to do this thing. Positive, we gotta do one positive thing about Havoc before we trend into madness potentially. Spencer, yeah, you got a good one. wow.
Luciano (06:07.682)
Wow, I thought you forgot, okay.
John Havoc (06:08.922)
I know.
John Havoc (06:14.589)
I already said it, but the action in this was very good and caught me off guard because the first quarter of the movie was very by the numbers, like tropey. And I was kind of like, boy, like kind of in and out of it and not that into it. And then the nightclub scene happened and I was like, whoa, that was fun. I was like,
Luciano (06:18.094)
The action? No.
Luciano (06:35.02)
The nightclub. Yeah. That was like fun. Yeah.
Matt (06:36.304)
club. Yeah, sick.
John Havoc (06:44.007)
damn, this is sick. And I was like, it lulled me into like a false sense of not security, like, boringness, a false sense of boredom. And then and then was like, wake up. It was like, wake up.
Matt (06:45.466)
Yeah. I think.
Luciano (06:58.23)
Yeah, the boringness. Borytude.
John Havoc (07:02.717)
Bored dude, and then it was like oh, are you bored watch this and then it was just like Fucking like how long was that fucking action scene? It was like 25 minutes. I Was like whoa. It just like first was like all of God fight and then into like a fucking Ten minute like just like fist fighting knife fighting and it was just like for some reason that in every fight scene It all starts with guns and then at one point everybody puts their guns away And then this is all my fighting and it's like where did everyone's guns go but
Luciano (07:13.43)
It was long. It was long. It was long, yeah.
Matt (07:14.02)
Yeah, it was long. Yeah.
Matt (07:28.225)
Have I got a knife?
Luciano (07:28.439)
Yeah.
Matt (07:32.762)
Get no one brings more than like an automatic like an Uzi or like a like a Aero 15 whatever like nothing bigger but.
Luciano (07:36.44)
Yeah, well, no, no sin is more emblematic of that than when like the assassin fucking brings the entire house down over Walker and she has literally like 25 guns, like automatic guns around her and she goes grab up a knife to see if he's dead and get fucking speared through the through the face or the yeah, it was.
John Havoc (07:55.665)
Yeah, that was sweet too.
Matt (07:58.788)
It was good. I think the club for me was the better of the two. The cabin, I don't want to get negative here, but the cabin kind of went on a bit too long, whereas the action at the club, yeah. The club kept going and going and going, but it seemed all very like, it was cool as hell and realistic, and it's just like, baseball, yeah.
John Havoc (08:02.001)
Yeah, agreed.
Luciano (08:02.444)
Yeah.
Luciano (08:10.507)
It also flew off the handle really fast.
John Havoc (08:19.591)
paste well. was more realistic than the ending fight, but not realistic.
Luciano (08:22.398)
It was, it was, realistic is not the word.
Matt (08:26.784)
Yeah, like it's it's not like I've I've ever been to a club where a bunch of triad and dirty cuffs fight each other guns and knives I have not but it was like
Luciano (08:26.956)
Yes.
John Havoc (08:33.244)
Well then you haven't lived sir That's like a perfect like, know step on from SNL Well, let me tell you about the club triage where the triad will fight with a bunch of dirty cops while you drink your martini
Luciano (08:36.718)
Okay.
Matt (08:41.414)
Yeah.
Luciano (08:41.718)
Yeah, that is that is 100 %
Matt (08:54.574)
Yep, definitely. So like that, I don't want to, I try not to use the same thing, but in this movie where like the whole point of it was the action, I have to agree with Spencer. Like the club scene is just bonkers.
John Havoc (09:04.859)
Yeah.
Luciano (09:06.51)
I can bring one other one. It's also action, but I was not bored. Well, I wasn't scared of being bored in this movie because the chase scene where Mia is driving that truck like a boss. And I was like, OK, this is a pretty cool chase scene. Yeah. Well, yeah.
Matt (09:21.894)
Car chase? Yeah.
John Havoc (09:31.133)
You're talking about the opening scene?
Luciano (09:34.734)
The opening scene is very boring because they're just showing Walker walking around some random dark place But I mean right after and then there's like, okay This is a fun scene and then they throw a fucking washing machine on the car. I was like, you have my attention movie Yeah, yeah
Matt (09:47.46)
Yeah. This is, yeah, the movie is just like, Hey fuckers, this is what we do here.
John Havoc (09:55.303)
The only thing that was weird about that opening car chase, and I don't know if you noticed, but I noticed that it was all entirely CGI. Like there was no real cars. It looked like, was very, like every time it was outside in the whole movie, it felt like Sin City almost. It was like, not that obviously like overly stylized, but it is almost entirely CGI, that opening scene.
Luciano (10:03.95)
It was weird. It was very weird.
Luciano (10:13.839)
yeah, a little bit.
Luciano (10:18.574)
Stylized, yeah.
John Havoc (10:26.213)
And to be fair, I watched the YouTube channel with the corridor digital guys. like break down FX and they did that scene and they were like, this is basically said it's all CGI. I was like, I know I watched that before I watched the movie. So when I watched it, it was kind of ruined it for me. So maybe I wouldn't have noticed as much if I didn't see that.
Luciano (10:33.134)
Yeah.
Matt (10:38.214)
You gotta stop watching things.
Matt (10:45.12)
I didn't notice it that much. It helps because it was all dark, right? It's a lot easier to get away with shit when it's dark.
Luciano (10:46.814)
Yeah Yeah, I noticed like for example what I noticed is like they were like, okay They're lifting that washing machine very easily into people but like I didn't care that but I was like, what did they Shit yeah. Yeah. Yeah and like Yeah, like it they they toss it and like it lands square on the driver's side of the car
John Havoc (10:48.092)
Yeah.
Matt (10:56.227)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt (11:01.962)
It's the rule of cool, right? The rule of cool is like, this could be fucking cool. So toss it.
John Havoc (11:07.069)
The real cool is all over this fucking movie.
Matt (11:09.604)
Yes, 100%.
Luciano (11:16.012)
and it's full of cocaine inside. like you get that is like the, just like the dust from the cocaine.
Matt (11:21.476)
I actually was, I first I thought it was like some like poison, know, like anthrax or something and I thought they just like poisoned the cop to dead. But no, he just over... Yeah, I'm like, I don't know what they're stealing.
Luciano (11:26.22)
Right.
John Havoc (11:29.527)
They're throwing poisonous washing machines at us. Not again!
Luciano (11:32.287)
Yeah, yeah. And they show Cortez inside and he's like, you know, like pouring blood and sniffing cocaine. I'm like, at least he's high.
Matt (11:41.946)
Yeah.
Yeah. Hey.
John Havoc (11:45.093)
It great if the cocaine kept him alive and healed him.
Matt (11:49.698)
If only. Hey, spoilers. He dies. Don't worry about it. It's fine. But like, OK, so we've already got into it, but let's get let's let's talk through this movie overall, because to me, the movie is is how do I put it? There are like two, three, maybe four like action sequences that are like fantastic. And then there's just like like a sprinkle of like. Thing movie.
Luciano (11:49.738)
until... yeah okay
John Havoc (11:53.949)
You
Luciano (12:14.978)
Slug.
John Havoc (12:19.869)
story
Luciano (12:20.238)
And it's it whenever there's acting the movie isn't great. I'm just gonna say that
Matt (12:20.292)
Like, it's like.
John Havoc (12:26.673)
Well, I will say, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I, I like Tom Hardy. I do not like Tom Hardy anytime he plays an American because he always does the same like New York, like kind of talk like this. He's like, Hey, Hey, it's just like, what, what are you, what are you doing right now? And he does the same thing when he's venom. When you know, in venom, he's like, I don't know if I want to be a, you know, be a
Matt (12:38.926)
Yeah, it makes no sense.
Matt (12:46.79)
Yeah.
It's good.
Luciano (12:51.114)
Hahaha!
John Havoc (12:56.967)
back out anymore as like you're like a kind of gangster New Yorker.
Matt (12:56.987)
Yeah.
Luciano (13:01.666)
Yeah.
Matt (13:01.99)
I don't think he knows how to do an American accent except that one. Yeah.
John Havoc (13:04.745)
Neither do I. I love when he's like, I love when he talks like, I was born in the dark. He talks like that all the time. That would be fantastic. or when he, cause he's,
Luciano (13:04.97)
No, he does not. He mumbles a lot.
Luciano (13:12.174)
Yeah. I wish I wish you would have done just Bane for this whole movie. I'd be here for that. Yeah. Hello! Put the child on the phone!
Matt (13:12.322)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Havoc (13:19.963)
Yeah, that's a...
Matt (13:20.486)
Yeah, the phone call calling his wife.
John Havoc (13:23.517)
Put the girl on the line here. I want to talk to the girl. She was molded by it. Molded by what? By the cocaine that I lauded.
Matt (13:27.302)
Hehehehehe
Matt (13:42.566)
Great movie. No louts.
John Havoc (13:44.451)
or, or if he was just British, cause when he's British, you know, he's fine.
Luciano (13:47.702)
Yeah, well, this is not trying to be Australian because like in med-mags you can barely understand a word he says. Crikey!
John Havoc (13:53.949)
He's like classic mumble actor.
Matt (13:58.257)
It's... Yeah, he is, which is... It's fine, I mean, it's fine. guess this is... Was it specifically set in New York City or is it kind of one of those things where it's just like no one says anything? Yeah.
Luciano (14:07.246)
I don't think they say where it is. Yeah. At least it's not in fucking Wisconsin.
John Havoc (14:09.115)
Nobody said what town it is, it's definitely could be New York City. Yeah, Welcome. Hey, I'm walking on this is the streets of Wisconsin. I'm a daddy cop.
Matt (14:15.302)
It, yeah.
Luciano (14:21.486)
Just you weren't here you weren't here, but like the last movie it was about like mobsters and whatnot It was like the outskirts of Milwaukee. It like what? Yeah, they were
Matt (14:28.07)
Yeah, we watch Love Hurts. Yeah.
John Havoc (14:31.165)
yeah
We're mobsters. Yeah, but but I mean but to go back like I just find that um He is like I like him as an actor and he's a good leading man, but whenever he does this is American accent it's just like I find him like Weird like doesn't sound like a normal human It takes me well, maybe I don't like him as a leading what's he good as a leading man in
Matt (14:37.254)
Yeah, we're gonna go watch the Packers.
Matt (14:53.318)
It's... He... It... It... It...
Luciano (14:55.136)
I don't like him as a human at all.
Luciano (15:00.526)
Venom?
Matt (15:03.141)
like
John Havoc (15:04.123)
No, Venom's terrible, he's terrible.
Luciano (15:06.346)
Exactly that's what I'm saying.
Matt (15:08.262)
I'll let me Tom Hardy up. The thing with, maybe the thing with Tom Hardy, like his accent is it just like, it's, and not every, like that, the sort of like, it worked okay in, in Venom, cause he is from New York and it's supposed to be this like Brooklyn down on his luck, like.
John Havoc (15:10.161)
Maybe he's a good, maybe he's a better supporting actor. Sorry.
Luciano (15:29.058)
Well, but he's supposed to be, you know, like a reporter from New York, not a brain damaged person from New York, which is what it sounds like.
John Havoc (15:35.911)
Yeah, when I saw, I saw Venom in theaters and literally I walked to the theater and I was like, is he doing like a New York daffy impression? Like, I don't know what the fuck he's, yeah.
Matt (15:36.067)
Well that's fair.
Luciano (15:43.882)
Yours just speckle
Matt (15:44.751)
it
So, let's see, what has he been in recently? Venom, the bike riders. he was Eddie Brock and it's better in no way home. I see show up there for a second. Venom, let there be carnage Capone, venom, the original one, Dunkirk, which is fine. That's British.
Luciano (15:54.423)
You
Luciano (16:08.588)
Yeah, I was gonna say, why don't they ever let him use his regular accent? Ever.
Matt (16:12.172)
Let legend where I think he is a British gangster. I can't remember if he's a British gangster or not. But he's like he plays twins twin gangsters.
John Havoc (16:19.089)
No, I think he is. think he's like, yo, yeah. But apparently he's good in that. But yeah, I think he, I think we cracked the code here. He's only good when he talks in British or in whatever Bane is. Welsh, old timey.
Luciano (16:20.896)
no, the Eddie Murphy route.
Matt (16:22.232)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt (16:31.568)
It's not... Yeah, whatever Bane's accent is. Sure. Yes. No. Yes. Yeah. It's fine. He's not the... Like, the thing with this movie is, and I, you know, when I say like there's, you know, just wisp of plot, it's not fair. There are... It's not wisp. There are hard plot lines, but they're like formulaic, right? So it's like, they're not meant to...
Luciano (16:34.286)
No, it's a it's junky junky accent
John Havoc (16:55.185)
Yeah.
Luciano (16:55.79)
Oh yeah, 100 % paint by numbers.
Matt (16:58.862)
trick you up, not really trying to throw too many surprises at you. Although to be fair, I honestly thought that Ellie was gonna get to the hospital in time to save Cortez and his wife. Yeah.
John Havoc (17:06.919)
That did catch me quite off guard. I didn't see that coming.
Luciano (17:08.726)
Yeah, I wasn't ready. I was like, it's gonna be like a gunfight between the two of them. No, just the fucking cop in slow motion reaching out for a newspaper.
Matt (17:19.376)
You change this cap and everybody left, right and center.
John Havoc (17:23.385)
And then he guns down the guy in the coma, which is how they actually officially unplug people in hospitals in America. Yeah.
Matt (17:29.862)
Ha
Luciano (17:32.462)
When when you don't have health insurance, that's what they do
Matt (17:32.536)
Is that RFK's new rules?
John Havoc (17:37.341)
No, they they say I'm sorry, but we don't think your husband's gonna wake up. We're gonna have to Put him down. They're like ma'am step back This can't be cost-effective man is America we got laws here
Matt (17:38.319)
Yeah
Luciano (17:44.85)
We're gonna have to machine gun him to death.
Matt (17:45.968)
Ching, come on in. Step back.
Luciano (17:53.55)
He got freedom'd, that's what happened to him.
John Havoc (17:58.525)
Freedom from his mortal coil. They play the national anthem and they salute the corpse.
Matt (17:59.451)
Yeah.
John Havoc (18:08.078)
but then, yeah, but when he's like holding the wife hostage and he's like, want her to take her, they just push her. Jesus Christ. That was shocking.
Luciano (18:08.407)
Yeah.
Matt (18:13.931)
Bye bye bye bye.
Luciano (18:14.282)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you would too if your gun was magical, it didn't need to be reloaded ever. So.
Matt (18:25.392)
Well, we're gonna get into this because no one is making great decisions from the get-go in this movie. Which is, I'm fine with it, like that's fine. Like in some ways it's nice to see regular people be put in extreme conditions and make the dumbest decision possible.
Luciano (18:32.322)
Yes.
John Havoc (18:33.159)
from the jump.
Luciano (18:43.028)
and make dumb decisions? Yeah, yeah. And you can pick, right? Who was the dumbest? Like, did Mia stealing from like a gangster? Was that the dumbest thing that happened in this? Or the guy who's the son of a politician getting involved and going, I'll take the rap. Yeah, that's fine. I'll just take the rap. It's okay. Nothing bad is going to happen ever.
John Havoc (18:45.373)
Classic.
John Havoc (18:54.279)
Well, lots of dumb things happened.
Matt (18:55.077)
I doubt it.
Matt (19:04.838)
But those are all like believable things for dumb people to do.
John Havoc (19:08.027)
Yeah, especially that dumb people from like a family where there's no consequences, you know, that makes that tracks. I will say one thing I liked about the movie is I like that they didn't play up the Timothy Oliphant's character. What? Who's that? Vincent?
Luciano (19:08.622)
100 %
Luciano (19:16.066)
That's true, yeah.
Luciano (19:26.158)
Yeah, they're just like, okay, he's a crooked cop fuck it. Yeah
Matt (19:27.706)
Vincent.
John Havoc (19:28.869)
Yeah, like like this the first quarter the movie it's like who shot them we know it wasn't the son of the Forest Whitaker the coup shot they were wearing these demon masks and like literally like they're 20 minutes in they're like that it was him and I was like tonight because they obviously in my head I was like well if he didn't do it who did and it's like there's only one other group in this movie that's not part of this triad and it's the the cops
Matt (19:36.55)
Yeah.
Luciano (19:37.134)
Yeah.
Luciano (19:44.301)
Yeah.
Luciano (19:51.608)
Yeah.
Matt (19:54.382)
it
Luciano (19:54.632)
They make it pretty clear too very very fast that like the demons are just the cops right? Like they don't, it's a third party, no it's not.
John Havoc (20:04.699)
Yeah, no, just I really like like Lily I figured it out and then like within 10 minutes of figuring out they were like, it was Mia. She's like, that's the guy he was wearing the mask. It fell off and I was like, perfect. Good. I really didn't want the worst is when it's like dragged out. It's like, it plays it up. Like it's like, my God, it was you fit the one who murdered the copper cocaine earlier murdered these guys for cocaine to know what
Luciano (20:16.556)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt (20:17.072)
Yeah. Great.
Matt (20:23.236)
Surprise!
Luciano (20:29.196)
Hahaha!
Luciano (20:35.757)
Yeah.
Matt (20:35.966)
twice. No, I appreciate the simplicity of it to some degrees in the sense that like they didn't have a lot of extraneous plot points going on, you know, like the things tied together, you you saw the backstory to Vincent and Walker and the cocaine stealing and the cop killing and all that stuff to like level set what their deal was and why they didn't like each other. You know, me and Charlie are kind of in this because they're dumb.
Chang is in this cause he's dumb. yeah.
Luciano (21:05.94)
is dumb. That's the thing. That's what I was saying. Like you said, this is a lot of like not the top of the game, the cream of the crop people being put in a situation where they have to make split second decisions and making the worst possible decisions. No, no, it's a good, it's refreshing.
John Havoc (21:21.925)
And I don't mind that. And and and I also liked and some people would say this is a detriment in most films, but like they set up a lot of things like mysteries, almost not mysteries, but you know, the opening, it's that quick shot of that guy dying. He's like choking on his blood or whatever. And then, you know, they have the people who do with the mask shooting. And it's like, who's that? Who's the leader? Who is that son? They have always like open threads. And it's like in most movies.
Matt (21:23.482)
No, it's fine.
Luciano (21:37.612)
Great.
John Havoc (21:50.363)
it'd be cool mysteries, in this movie I was like, I didn't want to feel like I was missing anything. And when they wrapped it all up within the first half of the movie, I felt relief. I was like, I got it all. I got it. And now I can just.
Luciano (22:00.782)
Yeah. Yeah, I was afraid they were going to do honestly when they show the first flashback with the, know, which was actually also a cool scene when they show the cops coming in and just gunning everybody down. Like the way that they showed it with Walker sort of like Batman, Arkham Asylum sort of seeing the scene in his mind and whatnot. And I was like, oh, fuck, they're going to get like a 20 minute.
Flashback for the for Tui and what like how he what nope just a dick and it's like, okay dad done No background story for him. He was just the son the the like the gangster and and that's it. Yeah
Matt (22:28.357)
Yeah.
John Havoc (22:39.623)
Yeah, nice and lean.
Matt (22:41.978)
Yep. He's got a mom and she's real mad. Great. Move on.
John Havoc (22:43.239)
Which,
Yeah, perfect. And when and you know, and when when you have action this good, you can get away with that because.
Luciano (22:46.518)
Yeah, well, holy crap, is she mad? Holy shit.
Matt (22:54.756)
Yeah, well, you don't really want to mess up the action with too complicated a plot, right? This isn't fucking, Kaiser Soze, what the hell is that? Usual suspects, where the whole purpose of it is to like throw us for a loop and then have a big reveal at the end. This is like kick the shit out of some guys, show me some really cool action and justify it.
John Havoc (23:03.709)
Easy with the vaccine.
Luciano (23:05.879)
Yeah.
Luciano (23:14.188)
Yeah, which the only thing that bothered me, which I mentioned already on the action was like the fact that the guns were infinite ammo. at one point, like in that fight on the cabin when Charlie picks up a gun and he like he puts the gun on the guy's face and he shoots him with like a million bullets and it doesn't stop. I'm like, what? Why?
John Havoc (23:24.165)
Yeah, well, talk to John Woo, you fuck.
Matt (23:39.238)
So is it your complaint that he never reloaded or that when he shot one person he shot more bullets than the gun could have reloaded? Sorry, could have if he reloaded in secret.
Luciano (23:49.994)
Yes, yes, both, both.
John Havoc (23:52.641)
Or was your problem that everyone shoots everyone way more than they need to to kill someone? Because every time they kill someone it's like bang bang and they're like, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, bang, bang, bang.
Luciano (23:59.052)
That as well and the
Luciano (24:04.95)
Yeah, yeah, and Charlie's the worst of this because like the guy was already falling over and then he goes in and he puts the gun in the guy's mouth and he keeps on shooting. I'm like, he's stop, stop, he's already dead.
Matt (24:07.994)
Bang bang!
John Havoc (24:10.487)
Yeah, yeah, I did just
Matt (24:13.111)
Jake, yeah.
Matt (24:19.206)
Yeah.
John Havoc (24:23.453)
it
Matt (24:23.498)
Also, that'd be extremely gross if you did that in real life. Yeah. But it's like, think we're, I know I'm a little too accustomed to, it's opposite John Wick, right? John Wick is like, the movie's like, this is how you kill a person professionally, this is how you reload between things. I'm gonna do everything with a gun, I'm not gonna use a knife unless I absolutely have to. I'm gonna shoot you with a gun point blank or far away, I don't care. So it's like, when you see all that and it's just this, it's just dirty fighting, it's just like.
Luciano (24:26.718)
it would fly everywhere, yeah.
Luciano (24:38.072)
Bang bang! Bang bang! Yeah.
John Havoc (24:39.953)
Yeah.
Luciano (24:45.581)
Yeah.
Matt (24:52.486)
Guess there are no rules.
John Havoc (24:53.297)
Yeah, no, I think it was almost like an homage to like John Woo in, you know, Hard Boiled. They're just like, who cares? And I don't care. I'm not like Luciano.
Luciano (24:58.388)
Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
Matt (25:00.102)
100%.
Luciano (25:02.862)
Who has time for math? We have guns.
John Havoc (25:07.473)
Yeah. Who's-
Matt (25:07.598)
I like I noticed it because like it wasn't a problem until we got to the cabin and we're and it was nothing it was a problem the camera just like man he is shooting a lot of bullets at a lot of people and it does not seem like he's reloading but it wasn't like I was like fuck this movie this is a lie you would never do that it's just like it was so aggressive my brain was just like
Luciano (25:13.335)
Yeah.
Luciano (25:22.484)
No, no, no, not at all. Yeah, when the whole thing at the cabin, I was like, why? Like, you didn't have to go that extra mile. It was okay the way that it was before. Yeah, they did.
John Havoc (25:24.401)
What?
John Havoc (25:33.617)
Nah, let's go full Looney Tunes. I want him to throw an old fashioned stick of dynamite into someone and watch their bellies
Luciano (25:41.262)
You
Matt (25:42.807)
I was really waiting for somebody to crack up like a Tommy gun and just fucking go at her.
John Havoc (25:46.365)
Mean we weren't far off from that it was pretty close But it was and I enjoyed it Obviously, I will say I say this in most action movie podcast. We record Don't love the digital blood Would have preferred a little more scripts, but this one was better than most
Luciano (25:46.414)
Yeah.
Matt (25:50.244)
Yeah. yeah, it was, it was a very fun.
Luciano (26:02.07)
Well, I mean that would That would have been the whole budget of the movie if they if they used real blood or not real blood, but you know Not Yeah, that would have been expensive
Matt (26:02.192)
Yeah.
John Havoc (26:07.353)
I know. That's true. No, no! I require real human blood!
Matt (26:11.418)
I think, I think.
I need to see real blood. Otherwise don't bother. Yeah. Yeah. I, it, no, it's very important to have authenticity. Hey, can we, let's, let's, I don't want to dive into questions just yet. We have a few minutes here, like, but I just want to talk about, the, like the, the dirty cops. And so we have, Timothy Oliphant who obviously sticks out Vincent.
John Havoc (26:18.373)
We need a hundred packs of blood from the blood bank. What authenticity.
Matt (26:44.262)
And then we have the guy who gets killed with cocaine. Sorry, he doesn't die with cocaine. just gets put in the hospital. Honestly, he thought he was dead. Yeah, he gets out of hospital. His insurance declined him.
John Havoc (26:49.082)
It gets unplugged. gets euthanized. Yeah, yeah.
Luciano (26:50.702)
He gets discharged from healthcare. Discharged from healthcare.
Enjoy your Medicaid, fucker.
Matt (27:02.336)
and then we have the other, the other guy who like, dies like instantly at the club. Yeah. knife to the neck. And then we have Jake who just for some reason decides to shoot Charlie at the end of the movie.
Luciano (27:08.62)
Like a bitch? Yeah.
John Havoc (27:09.553)
Yeah, it's knife to the neck.
Luciano (27:12.365)
Yeah.
John Havoc (27:20.069)
He gets death by a thousand bullets.
Luciano (27:23.222)
Yeah. It was, it was, yeah.
Matt (27:23.706)
Charlie. Gun bullet caught us. Yeah. And I just like, cause we're not going to talk about this in the second section, but it's just like.
John Havoc (27:25.981)
It's almost comical, you think dancing.
Matt (27:37.254)
Like Does the does it make sense like there's just that's not the right question, but it's like there's just a bunch of like They just to kind of throw in dirty cops Just so they have it feels like they have something to play with later on right? It's just like
Luciano (27:52.382)
It's not, yeah, I think I know what you're asking. It's like, yes, they're dirty, but like to the point of stupidity in like in that scene, for example, it's like, I'm in this fucking tense scene with like mobsters or like, you know, the triad and like some other faction and people with guns pointed at me. I'm just going to turn and kill this kid for no reason. Just because I'm a dirty cop. Yeah, it's I don't I don't think it was needed even.
Matt (28:19.462)
It felt like they sprinkled in some like nondescript heavies just to have someone to off later or play with later if they needed to do something extra.
John Havoc (28:31.601)
You know what it felt like? It felt like all the cops of this movie learned how to be a cop by watching action movies. You know, it's like, yeah, like they're, no, but like, die hard. it took where it's like, none of them follow any kind of police conduct of any kind. Even the good cops, even Ellie that's supposed to
Luciano (28:39.379)
care about watching training day
Matt (28:39.395)
Yeah.
Luciano (28:52.748)
Hey, don't you besmirch the good name of John McLean here in my presence? Yes! Yes!
Matt (28:53.03)
All of them are marrying Cabretti, is what you're telling me.
John Havoc (28:58.095)
Yeah. All of them need to have a speech from a stern police captain telling them that they're flying by the seat of their pants and that they're hotheads.
Matt (29:05.509)
Yeah, that's Eddie Murphy's captain from Fairleigh Hills Cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the original and the best.
John Havoc (29:11.709)
Okay, perfect. So we were thinking the same thing on the I don't understand references. You too. Yeah, hothead. God damn it. I want you off the case. Give me a gun and your badge.
Luciano (29:13.068)
Beverly Hills Cop? Yeah.
Luciano (29:20.44)
Yeah.
Isn't there a movie or maybe a series where Ice Cube is the captain and it's the same thing? Yes, 21 Jump Street. Yeah, it's great. That's the kind of captain they needed.
John Havoc (29:30.109)
21 Jump Street.
Matt (29:32.346)
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt (29:36.966)
Yeah, yeah, I think that it's like you could have played into that more if you wanted to make it a comedy. I'm glad they didn't. But that is just it was just like. Well, I guess it's like how cops want to be in 2025 in the United States, but it seemed off putting in a movie.
John Havoc (29:51.613)
I feel like all those cops had like Punisher tattoos. You know? And they're like, they were like, what's up? Thin blue line.
Luciano (29:52.246)
Yeah.
Matt (29:55.674)
Mm-hmm.
Luciano (29:55.81)
Yeah, 100%.
Matt (30:01.702)
They got a Punisher tattoo with Blue Lives Matter under it. that what you... Yeah. Good. that was... Moving on. Questions. Fun questions. How... Let's go simple here. We kind of talked about it, so let's just get it out of our systems. How do ammunition work?
Luciano (30:03.446)
Yeah.
John Havoc (30:06.205)
Yeah, you can feel that they have that vibe
Luciano (30:07.608)
Yeah.
Luciano (30:16.351)
HAHAHAHA
Luciano (30:27.842)
Well, in this movie it's like casting a spell. As long as you have mana you can shoot. That's what it is.
Matt (30:29.665)
Yeah. What did it mean?
John Havoc (30:33.117)
And your mana bar can be like upgraded via smuggling cocaine.
Luciano (30:38.722)
Yeah.
Matt (30:38.938)
Okay.
Luciano (30:41.354)
yeah, and that are you get mana back when you kill someone so
Matt (30:42.566)
So that's why he shot.
Sure. So he shot the...
John Havoc (30:47.389)
That's actually a great idea for a game mechanic in a video game. Actually no, I'm pretty sure that's like the nude... What's it say? The cocaine! Not you kill someone you get cocaine, which you then can do for more ammo. That's exactly what I saying, Matt. You are wrong.
Luciano (30:50.894)
Why you shoot someone like, I'm out of mana.
Matt (30:52.366)
I'm sure someone's done it.
No, I think he was talking about the bullet thing, not the cocaine thing.
Matt (31:07.662)
My bad.
Luciano (31:08.675)
Ha ha ha!
John Havoc (31:10.161)
That was way more sense than what I was saying. But yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense, Luciano. I'm telling you, the world felt very, like am I wrong in saying that this movie didn't feel like it took place in the real world?
Luciano (31:24.855)
No,
Matt (31:25.05)
Honestly, having talked about it here, it felt like I was in Gotham. Like Gotham from like Matt Reeves' Batman, where like everything is visceral and dirty and grimy, or like the Penguin, right? Like, it's like that kind of like city. So.
Luciano (31:30.188)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Havoc (31:32.005)
Yeah
Luciano (31:38.466)
Yeah
John Havoc (31:39.761)
Yeah, like it felt like almost like comic booky. Like yeah, I know you're like like when I said Sin City like that kind of vibrates like it's not a real city. It's like a
Luciano (31:46.124)
Yeah. Everything is sort of like a little bit exaggerated for effect. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Well.
John Havoc (31:51.558)
Yes.
It made me actually think I'm like when I was watching the good space of a graphic novel like the first third. And then I was like this movie's too.
Matt (31:58.692)
Yeah, that's the feeling. Yeah.
Luciano (32:01.644)
Yeah, I never thought of that, now that you're saying it, yeah, I can see it. Actually, that would make me a lot more okay with the last scene. Because it doesn't make any fucking sense. Yeah.
John Havoc (32:10.285)
Cuz it's just like not yeah, it's just fucking wild Yeah, I was just thinking that in this movie bullets are just smaller so you can have more in each gun
Matt (32:10.459)
There you go.
Luciano (32:19.662)
I see. Yeah, maybe it's both.
Matt (32:23.078)
What if they're like hot, when they touch air they expand. So like in the cartridge they're very, very, very tiny like BBs. And as soon as you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so,
Luciano (32:29.422)
right. Like those disk towels where you put like water in the expand, right, right.
John Havoc (32:36.605)
It's called Diff's TAL technology.
Matt (32:41.67)
Yeah. And so you, you, you just like, put it, you, fire it and as soon as it's headed out, it like grows to be a bullet. And so you can have like, you know, 150,000 little tiny pebbles and like a regular handgun. Yeah. Nanobullets. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Exactly.
Luciano (32:41.78)
Hahaha
John Havoc (32:54.075)
Both of them, are very small.
Luciano (32:54.328)
They're like nano, they're called nano bullets. They're called nano bullets. Yeah.
John Havoc (32:58.363)
God damn it, who's writing this down? The Nano.
Luciano (33:01.262)
I like when you were describing this I was thinking in my head like in my head the picture was them shooting from like Like an assault rifle and then you get bomb Bob from from Mario go Yeah, but Bob bomb bomb Bob well, it's something like that. Yeah the bullet with the with the teeth. Yeah. Yeah
Matt (33:01.603)
Yeah
Matt (33:10.874)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
John Havoc (33:14.077)
Bum-ba-bum-ba-bum-ba-bum.
Matt (33:19.782)
Bum bum, bum bum, ba ba bum. Yeah, that guy, that's fine. That's...
John Havoc (33:24.593)
That's not Ba-Bomb! Ba-Bomb's the one that looks like a bomb with like a mustache. the bullet one is Bill Bullitt?
Luciano (33:29.68)
that's right. What's the name of the bullet one?
Matt (33:30.214)
yeah, yeah. But bullet.
Luciano (33:35.522)
Sure, let's go with that. Anyway, you know what I'm talking about, right?
Matt (33:37.094)
You
Nah nah nah. Yeah, bullet bills.
John Havoc (33:41.678)
Yeah, is it actually I said bill bullet I'm just making that up
Luciano (33:44.27)
that's right. Yeah, Bluebills. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matt (33:45.626)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're very close. That's his father.
Luciano (33:49.43)
Yeah. No, that's Bullet Bill Senior.
Matt (33:55.526)
Why do you have to be like this? Just let me have my joke. Much like Bullet Bill, you shouldn't have.
Luciano (33:55.572)
Anyway, I tried. Listen, I shot my shot and I missed. Much much like much like the gangsters at the at the cabin, I shot and missed. Yeah.
John Havoc (33:55.751)
Shut up. Why do you have to be the way you are?
John Havoc (34:03.933)
You shot your bow bullet and it missed.
Matt (34:11.012)
Yeah, you miss a lot.
John Havoc (34:12.125)
Man, those gangsters at the cabin were hilarious. One guy literally runs through a window with his gun, like, and dives without firing. He dives through the window and lands on top of the guy and he just shoots up at him. And I was like, what was that plan?
Luciano (34:18.753)
Like this?
Matt (34:18.928)
Yeah.
Luciano (34:21.709)
Yeah.
Matt (34:25.197)
Yeah
Luciano (34:26.39)
Yep. Well, there's one guy who shoots the window and then he jumps instead of continue shooting. looks at Walker. Walker aims a shotgun at him and blows a hole in the middle of his chest.
John Havoc (34:37.213)
Well, they were told that the guns are only to be used to get into the building. yeah, that's true.
Matt (34:40.944)
Yeah. Yeah.
Luciano (34:42.05)
No, he ran out of mana, that's what happened.
Matt (34:45.094)
Yeah, he's a low tier character. So he has like three points of mana and he used all of them to dive through the window. Yes, exactly. is, yeah, he doesn't have good conversion rates on the cocaine to mana.
Luciano (34:47.916)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Havoc (34:50.897)
You line of cocaine's worth of mana?
Luciano (34:55.278)
It's poor resource management is what that was. Yeah.
John Havoc (35:01.415)
cocaine ratio. That's just, that's all tracking.
Matt (35:03.494)
Yeah, it's real bad. Next question. Let's, let's, all right, we have to do this. The cops in this movie, we've talked a bit about them. They are not so smart. And in order for us to really put it all together, we're gonna rank the cops from dumbest to smartest cop. There are a couple of extraneous cops that we don't care about, like the captain, we don't get enough of her to care. So we are going to talk about Walker, obviously. We're going to talk about Ellie, his partner.
Luciano (35:13.588)
Hahaha
Luciano (35:24.63)
Nah, we don't see her enough, yeah.
John Havoc (35:29.661)
Mm-hmm.
Matt (35:32.858)
And then we're going talk about the rest of the Walker gangs. have Vincent, Jake, Cortez, and Hayes are our options. Let's go for the dumbest. I am going to nominate Hayes because he gets a giant knife in his head in the club and he doesn't seem to provide any utility to the crew whatsoever other than storing knives, I guess.
Luciano (35:45.816)
for dying like a bitch. Yeah.
John Havoc (35:48.411)
It was in his neck.
John Havoc (35:55.141)
story he can hold approximately one knife in his neck yeah give or take the thickness of the knife
Luciano (35:55.246)
He's a knife-wreck. He's a knife-wreck.
Matt (35:57.84)
Yeah.
Luciano (36:04.014)
Yeah, the problem is it rusts really fast when you start it in him on account of all the blood. Yeah.
Matt (36:04.326)
Give it a take.
Yeah, it's not great.
John Havoc (36:11.213)
It's... It's... One star. I think that's fair.
Luciano (36:17.688)
Yeah.
Matt (36:17.968)
Yeah. So we're agreed. Okay. I guess the next one we have to talk about, it's probably Cortez or is it Jake?
Luciano (36:20.11)
I think so, yeah.
Luciano (36:27.383)
I think
John Havoc (36:28.581)
I'd like to elect-
Luciano (36:30.262)
I think it's Jake is dumber than Cortez. Just because...
John Havoc (36:33.659)
I will say Jake is probably because of that last scene. He wasn't that dumb. Well, it's like a Mexican standoff situation. And he goes for like the one guy without a gun.
Luciano (36:37.953)
Yeah.
Matt (36:38.342)
or he just tries to shoot Charlie for no reason.
Luciano (36:44.268)
Yeah, that's the thing. It was a Mexican standoff and he did America in a Mexican standoff. That's what he did.
Matt (36:44.283)
Yeah.
Matt (36:53.054)
Yeah, like you think in that scenario it's like get the gun, shoot a mother or like
Luciano (36:58.368)
yeah or someone's gonna fly off the handle with a single shot and he goes you know what fuck this i'm gonna shoot Beaumont with like 10 shots and gets it off and it's like okay no just yeah
Matt (37:07.334)
Sure, yeah.
John Havoc (37:09.703)
or just like fire a little bit and getting to cover. But he like.
Matt (37:13.53)
Yeah. Like.
John Havoc (37:15.707)
But also he had no, from what I recall, he had no, like the whole reason they were trying to kill Charlie, his name Charlie, is because they didn't want them finding out that Charlie didn't actually kill them and they killed. But at that point, everybody knew that, it was all out. So at this point, Charlie's like completely useless to everyone. He has no reason for.
Luciano (37:24.621)
Yeah.
Matt (37:24.774)
Yeah.
Matt (37:30.531)
Right.
Luciano (37:30.828)
Yeah.
Matt (37:33.926)
Sorry, everybody knew. Yeah.
Luciano (37:39.234)
Yep.
Matt (37:40.09)
Like, I guess, not to give him any credit, if somehow everybody else died and they escaped, sorry, Charlie escaped, then Charlie could tell the cops. like, I think at this point,
Luciano (37:54.818)
But Charlie wouldn't go to the cops because he had actually committed a crime. He's dumb. He's very dumb.
Matt (37:58.148)
Right, so yeah, exactly, yeah, nevermind that, it's done. Like you just, you should be shooting to like get Vincent and you out of the situation, not kill Charlie. Yeah.
John Havoc (38:04.483)
anyone with a gun would have been fine.
Luciano (38:04.948)
Yeah. And he, but he consistently like when, when Walker goes to visit Cortez in the hospital, he's immediately antagonistic, who wants to like get in his face. Like he's, he's dumb because he doesn't think things through even to the extent that Vincent does, which isn't a lot. So
Matt (38:21.062)
true.
Matt (38:24.688)
That's fair. Cortez doesn't do anything. And so right now by proxy doing nothing is much better than what Jake did. All right. So, okay. So I'm really, okay. So it's, it's a Hayes and Jake. Yeah.
John Havoc (38:30.525)
It's one- it's at least one tier above what Jake did.
Luciano (38:31.176)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
John Havoc (38:36.829)
And the knife holder.
Luciano (38:38.978)
Well, yeah, I mean, Cortez, poor guy. He got fucking washing machine to death and then discharged by the the Medicaid. Yeah, exactly.
John Havoc (38:50.257)
the American healthcare industry.
Matt (38:52.914)
Yeah, so let's let's we know what Cortez did and let's just we need to level set. Can we throw Vincent in against Cortez just to see? So Vincent is in his favor. I think he and Walker both kind of set up the initial cocaine job that they they are mostly successful at. Yeah.
Luciano (39:02.817)
Okay.
Luciano (39:09.654)
Yeah. And he seems like he has a much more level head than the other ones. Like even when Ellie kind of corners him alone, I don't know how you corner someone alone, but she does. She's just that good of a cop. And he's like, okay, what now? Like he doesn't fly off the handle. So at least there's that.
Matt (39:29.712)
Yeah, he doesn't give it up immediately. Although he is the one that decides they should go shoot Tsui or whatever that kid's name was. Tsui, yeah. And kill him. Although I guess that was part of the deal with Ching. So maybe that's like, there was some thought there.
Luciano (39:36.982)
Yeah, tooey.
Luciano (39:44.941)
Yeah.
John Havoc (39:46.449)
No, that wasn't part of the deal with with Ching. No, the Ching didn't want him to kill that guy. He wanted him to. The plan was just for them to steal the cocaine because they failed at pulling that truck over. So they had to kill and then that was like what set everything off. So he fucked up by doing that because there was like security cameras and he left witnesses and it was like.
Luciano (39:49.293)
Yes, was.
Matt (39:54.256)
just steal a cocaine.
Matt (40:00.326)
They had to kill him to get the cocaine. Yeah, that's right. Alright.
Luciano (40:00.366)
that's right. Yeah, they had to kind of clean house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
Matt (40:13.115)
Yes.
John Havoc (40:15.845)
a like a way to get a like a target on your back from both the police and from the triad right it's it's like
Luciano (40:25.411)
From the police I don't think you were scared. mean have you seen the cops in this movie?
Matt (40:25.57)
Right. Sure. Yeah, they're bad.
John Havoc (40:29.137)
Fair.
Luciano (40:31.15)
He was like, what are gonna do try to arrest me? Sure. They can't find their own ass with two hands on a map. Like, well, that's fine. Exactly.
John Havoc (40:31.751)
fair. With what magic bullets are you going to catch me?
Matt (40:34.726)
So on, yeah.
Matt (40:43.428)
So let's then examine the case for Ellie. She is smart enough to catch on to the shit that Walker's trying to do in terms of like keep it under the radar and like chase down Luis Guzman and all that jazz. And she's smart enough to figure out how to find Walker at the end of the movie. Immediately, yeah.
Luciano (40:52.64)
Yeah.
John Havoc (41:03.623)
but ca-
Luciano (41:03.778)
She's also smart enough to become a corrupt cop right away when she needs to. Yeah.
John Havoc (41:08.529)
Wha- Did she become a corrupt cop?
Luciano (41:11.576)
yeah, she was like helping the kids run out. Like they are both criminals, Mia and Charlie. She was like, no, you guys go, you guys go, you know, be safe, be healthy.
Matt (41:17.67)
Yeah, she let them go.
John Havoc (41:18.116)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, this is so loosey-goosey with the law. Everyone's so loosey-goosey with the law in this movie. They're like, ahh, yeah, yeah, yeah. How many people did you kill today? Ten? They're bad guys.
Matt (41:21.51)
That's fine.
Matt (41:25.752)
Yeah.
Luciano (41:33.321)
Hahaha
Matt (41:33.934)
Like, the, the, so like that's not a great plan. Although I guess it's fine given all the other cops she's surrounded by. They all get away with way worse stuff. So yeah. yeah.
Luciano (41:43.224)
No, relatively speaking, it's very sound, yeah.
John Havoc (41:45.851)
I mean, but just counterpoint, why didn't she get help from any other police officers? I don't understand. Are they? There was no point in this movie, there was no one at point in this movie where they were like, we can't go to the police because of this reason. Most movies have at least a reason.
Luciano (41:56.169)
Clearly she didn't need it.
Matt (41:58.086)
Because they're all also corrupt.
Luciano (42:01.139)
and or better their jobs.
Matt (42:02.02)
Meh.
Matt (42:08.698)
sure everyone was trying to keep the police out.
Luciano (42:10.454)
Well, I mean, I think the reason that they wanted us to kind of glimpse in the movie, like the movie's ideas, like, she wanted to be Walker's partner and blah, blah, blah, and, you know, streetwise cop or whatever. But it just came out as like, she's very corruptible. Yeah, exactly.
John Havoc (42:26.567)
She wants to be a bad cop like Walker.
Matt (42:27.31)
Well, yeah, the thing is technically Walker was kicked off the case. So anything she was doing to help Walker would tarnish her career or record, unlike letting Charlie and Mia go. Yeah. Yeah.
Luciano (42:34.67)
Yeah.
Luciano (42:38.39)
Well, he said, the cops are dirty and she wanted to get the dirty cops, right? That's that was the thing. But then so. Instantly, yeah.
John Havoc (42:44.829)
But she got the dirty cops like red handed in like the second she knew that they were doing this deal and she had the Ching sounds offensive was like it which is gonna like make the deal with them and she was like waiting there. I thought she was gonna have a team of other police.
Matt (42:58.33)
within them.
Matt (43:04.846)
Okay, so this is fair. Why didn't she do that? And like she clearly tried to go to get, to win the whole prize, right? She got the corrupt cops. She asked Ching. She can bring down the triad, et cetera, et cetera, and save her partner. So she tries to do it all and she fails to a large degree. Yeah. Great job. Yeah. Okay. Fair.
Luciano (43:19.852)
Yeah, and show off that she speaks Mandarin as well. And Cantonese, I can't identify either.
John Havoc (43:23.109)
and leads to countless deaths.
including Saguerreira, unnecessary if the cops were there. She could have saved the dream!
Luciano (43:32.686)
Hahaha!
Matt (43:33.242)
Ha ha ha ha.
Matt (43:37.318)
Lies! Deception!
Luciano (43:37.848)
That's pretty good.
Yeah. Charlie, are you okay? I was like, you're dying. You're dying. Do something different, you motherfucker. My boy. Yeah, my boy. Did they hit you? My boy. Yeah, well.
John Havoc (43:42.439)
Nice deception!
John Havoc (43:46.557)
Charlie my boy!
John Havoc (43:50.415)
Charlie! My boy!
Take cover! Safe to dream!
John Havoc (44:02.939)
Let me kneel in front of these bullets! For you!
Matt (44:06.608)
So okay, so that's the case for Ali. Let's make the case for Walker, because I think with all the cases laid out, we can put them into the ranks. So Walker, corrupt cop, shoots another cop. Well, he didn't know he was a cop.
Luciano (44:11.586)
Walker? God. Okay.
Luciano (44:20.952)
shoots another cop by accident.
John Havoc (44:24.669)
Also, opening scene, that guy, he didn't shoot that guy.
Luciano (44:24.738)
He did. That's what I said, it was an accident.
No, it was Vincent. No, it was Vincent. It was Vincent. You're right. You're right. Yeah.
Matt (44:31.396)
shot him. Vincent that's right, yeah that's right.
John Havoc (44:33.959)
No, he like punched him with something and then he was just profusely bleeding and clearly wasn't gonna make it.
Luciano (44:40.118)
Yeah. that's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, well.
Matt (44:40.154)
Yeah, and they wanted to take him to the hospital and Vincent capped him. So Vincent's a man of action.
John Havoc (44:44.061)
And he was like
It was the right move.
Matt (44:49.082)
Probably.
Luciano (44:49.976)
at the very least to cut the guy's suffering if nothing else.
John Havoc (44:52.285)
I mean, I don't know what the hell he did to him. It looked like he hit him with something, but he was just like, looked like his throat was open. And he was like, he was like,
Matt (44:58.02)
Yeah, I don't know if the hospital would have... Anyways. Yeah, he was very, very not alive.
Luciano (44:58.114)
Yeah.
Luciano (45:03.154)
And it's funny because Vincent shoots him right and he goes we all know what you did. It's like what? What about what you did?
John Havoc (45:08.893)
Because everyone knows he was dying. mean, Bintz, mean, like, like, Walker's like, we got to get him to the hospital and then cuts to the guy. He's like, it's like his head, head's coming off. No, he even says he's like, I don't think he's going to make it. Then cuts back and
Matt (45:11.735)
Yeah.
Luciano (45:17.87)
Like gurgling.
Matt (45:18.662)
Yeah, so that's that's kind of against Walker right this like hey Walker, it's not NASA's a time my guy
Luciano (45:25.037)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Matt (45:30.518)
Yeah, yeah. So, and then, but he does do the job to disappear the body and he's successful because like it's it's known quote unquote, but there's no evidence which I think is.
Luciano (45:30.656)
Yeah.
Luciano (45:39.063)
Yeah.
Luciano (45:42.976)
Yeah, but then he gets somehow he gets under Beaumont's thumb, right? Sal Guerrero's thumb. I know what you did!
John Havoc (45:50.589)
Don't look at-
Matt (45:51.034)
What? But I think he was also just doing jobs for him, right? And making money. you know, it's hard to say. That one, I'll say like it's a strike against them, but we don't know enough about Beaumont. But so it's like a half strike against them. Cause like just what he knows or doesn't know or cause he was also benefiting from that relationship.
Luciano (45:58.072)
Yeah.
John Havoc (46:10.225)
With Walker, he was probably like, if you killed someone, say what? He's like, what? He's like, got you.
Luciano (46:10.712)
truth.
Luciano (46:16.75)
Got you!
Matt (46:16.998)
What?
John Havoc (46:20.893)
And then he was like, then Walker's like, God damn it, you got me. Again.
Matt (46:22.822)
That's exactly what happened.
Luciano (46:27.518)
Again, again. He got me again.
Matt (46:32.696)
Okay, so, well.
John Havoc (46:32.987)
Now save my boy! Save the dream!
Matt (46:37.35)
Walker, what other dumb things did Walker do? He was pretty smart in chasing down most of the leads to find Charlie.
Luciano (46:49.354)
Yeah, but he also like got himself kicked out of the case for covering up for
Matt (46:56.644)
Yeah, I don't think that matters. think it was probably... I don't- I don't- count that against them.
John Havoc (46:59.357)
There is no checks and balances in this police force. He's like, you're off the case. He's like, yeah, what the fuck? Sure, sure. Who gives a fuck? I'm going to go shoot everybody. Nothing happens. Yeah.
Matt (47:05.625)
Yeah.
Luciano (47:05.873)
none whatsoever.
Matt (47:10.374)
This is the thing, like don't think getting off the case was a problem at all.
Luciano (47:10.382)
Yeah. Well, even...
No, no, it was better because then nobody was looking at what he was doing. That whole police precinct had the weirdest, like, I don't know, like a hectic vibe and everybody going everywhere. He just passed by, grabbed some like coffee. what the fuck? There's no coffee. Talking about stuff. Meanwhile, people had grabbed the captain's car. People looking at like.
Matt (47:19.588)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
John Havoc (47:19.709)
Yeah, yeah, who fuck what the fuck you gonna do
John Havoc (47:37.511)
Grab the Captain's Coffee.
Luciano (47:43.566)
confidential shit in the open. like, what the fuck is happening here? You're right. It's Gotham. This is Gotham. 100%.
Matt (47:46.406)
fine. So the only other thing I'll put in Walker's favor is that he kills the assassin by drawing her in. Does she do something dumb? Yes, but he's smart enough to have a gun to shoot her when she shows up. Okay, I think that's most of the cops covered. Yeah, we have Walker, we have Cortez, we have Vincent, and we have Ellie are the ones we need to slot.
John Havoc (47:47.197)
There's no ch- I tell you there's no law. It's lawlessness.
Luciano (48:01.57)
playing that yeah yeah
He brought a harpoon to a knife fight. Yeah.
Matt (48:15.823)
I think
Luciano (48:15.982)
So are we saying that Walker is the least dumb? That feels... Okay.
John Havoc (48:18.863)
I think so. think Ellie is dumber than Vincent.
Matt (48:20.356)
I think so, yes. But let's go from the bottom up. So I think it's, what am looking here? Hayes, bottom. Knifeholder, knife rack, bottom. Jake, second from the bottom. Third from the bottom. I think it might be Ellie.
John Havoc (48:28.189)
Knife... Knife holder?
Luciano (48:29.634)
Well, yeah, being a knife rack. Yeah. Yeah.
Luciano (48:40.684)
I... Yeah, I think so.
John Havoc (48:42.223)
I agree.
Matt (48:45.07)
And then, and then Cortez by doing nothing, but he didn't do anything. Yeah.
John Havoc (48:48.571)
He played it smart.
Luciano (48:49.802)
No, think so. I think yeah, I don't know. Is Cortez better because he did nothing because he was also involved with the whole thing.
John Havoc (48:55.729)
Yes.
Matt (48:58.982)
Well the only thing he didn't do was move the car or whatever. When I watched her she was throwing at him.
Luciano (49:01.678)
Dodger watching, dodger watching machine.
John Havoc (49:03.037)
That is a strike against him. I mean, they had a lot of time. If we saw them like pulling that washing machine to the edge of the truck, he had time. Yeah.
Matt (49:07.782)
Yeah. Yeah. You know what? You're right. Cortez is third from the bottom. Then Ellie.
Luciano (49:10.018)
That's true. Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. I think he's below. Yeah, yeah. He's like, no! A washing machine! What do I do? I would just watch it. What's the worst that could happen? Yeah.
John Havoc (49:18.621)
Whatever could I do? They seem to be washing their clothes? But why now? NO!
Matt (49:20.24)
Yeah.
Matt (49:25.062)
This is This is magical. it's coming for me Okay, so so then it's K's Jake Cortez Ellie Vincent Walker Walker being the smartest of the Dumbs
Luciano (49:33.164)
Yeah, okay.
Luciano (49:43.47)
I have an honorary mention, an honorary member of this group. No, no, he's not a cop. No, the cop that Ching kills who was guarding Cortez. He sees he sees the guy. he's that he's below the ground because he's like he hears an alarm and the whole hospital and he was like, an alarm. This must be important. He stands up, goes nowhere, comes back, sees someone coming up to him with a gun and reaches for his newspaper.
Matt (49:47.942)
Ching.
Matt (49:54.054)
Where do you want to slot him? Above the knife holder?
John Havoc (50:12.701)
I didn't see him reach for his newspaper.
Luciano (50:13.326)
What?
yeah he's like dead so i think he goes below the ground really yeah unranked yeah yeah he ranks below the knife holder
Matt (50:24.496)
fair. Unranked as in bad. Okay. We did it. Hey, this is a good time to talk about Ching because he isn't a cop so we can't put him on the scale. But I have questions.
Luciano (50:36.544)
Let's talk about them. Yeah. Yeah.
John Havoc (50:38.109)
Speaking of dumb.
Matt (50:40.794)
What was Ching's plan? High level, he didn't like being that his nephew got promoted to the territory boss. Yeah, cause it, cause so the way it works is he was the brother to mother and yes, cause she says he complains to her at the end, like when our brother died, I expected to be put in charge. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. It's not actually important, but.
Luciano (50:49.196)
Was he a nephew really or just...
Luciano (50:56.662)
Was he? I didn't get that. Okay.
Luciano (51:03.918)
that's right. Yeah, yeah. I blank that out because of all the guns and all the bullets. Yeah. too many.
John Havoc (51:09.661)
because of all the words.
Matt (51:11.91)
Yeah, words, how do they work? his plan is steal the transport full of cocaine and sell it to someone else and make a bunch of money. Fine, that plan is fine enough. And then everything...
Luciano (51:21.464)
Right.
John Havoc (51:25.821)
But it's also the plan is to, by stealing the cocaine, it undermines the nephew in the hopes that he'll take over.
Luciano (51:31.746)
Yeah.
Matt (51:31.95)
Yes, yeah, that's right. So it's even it's a arguably a good plan. But on paper, great, but it goes downhill pretty quickly what with the truck not being captured by Vincent's crew and then.
John Havoc (51:38.469)
on paper.
Luciano (51:38.53)
Yeah.
Luciano (51:50.296)
Well, with letting two kids steal the truck in the first place.
Matt (51:53.702)
Sure. Yeah. And then we have Ching's decision to let Vincent come in and kill everybody in the crew and somehow survive, magically.
Luciano (52:03.246)
Yeah. And also, you know, part, part of a good plan, if you're not executing it on your own is knowing that you have trustworthy, competent partners. And given the list that we just built, yeah. So that's, that wasn't very smart.
John Havoc (52:17.885)
And boy, boy did he not.
Matt (52:24.314)
Yeah. And then, and then it goes, he realizes he has incompetent employees. And so he goes to clean it up, but, well, his plan to, to walk into a hospital with cameras and shoot a cop and his wife and another cop and walk out. Not a great one.
Luciano (52:32.886)
Right? Yeah.
Get.
Luciano (52:44.333)
Yeah.
John Havoc (52:46.169)
Both both playing a bull strategy cotton will see how plays out I Mean he even says like he says to he's like we all have our he says it to Vincent He's like we all have our loose ends He's like These guys are bad guys and they're you know, they're gonna cause shit. I'm gonna go kill the one in the coma. He's my first concern
Luciano (52:48.884)
Yeah.
Matt (52:50.768)
Yeah.
So, but.
Luciano (53:01.848)
Something like that,
Luciano (53:09.428)
Yeah, because it's because he was talking I think or something like that.
John Havoc (53:13.179)
No he was not, he was still in a coma.
Matt (53:14.842)
He was in a coma, how do you talk in a coma?
Luciano (53:16.96)
I... well he... yeah I mean that was before. That's right. He had no reason. Okay. I tried. I tried to give... I... I tried... I tried to give Ching the benefit of the doubt but nope. just...
John Havoc (53:18.79)
No, he was not.
Matt (53:22.608)
They were, they were like.
John Havoc (53:22.717)
You said he was talking before he was in a coma? that what you're saying? that was before the laundry machine.
Matt (53:30.81)
Woof woof woof!
John Havoc (53:32.377)
No. He was like, I'm going to take out this guy because he's my biggest threat.
Luciano (53:36.398)
Oh wait no, isn't he go there because the cops betray him and he goes as punishment, he goes like, oh I'm gonna kill your friend. think that's what it
John Havoc (53:47.441)
Yeah, but that's what kind of plan is that? I thought he was going there to like kidnap him to like make a deal or to get them to come to him, but he just went in there and shot up a hospital. That's not going to play well.
Luciano (53:50.082)
What?
Luciano (53:54.797)
Yeah.
Matt (53:56.035)
Yeah, killing him.
Luciano (54:00.418)
Yeah.
Matt (54:00.438)
Killing? So he goes in and he shoots a guy who they have real concerns that even if he survives his brain is scrambled from all the cocaine he ingested and the washersine being dumped on his face.
Luciano (54:08.458)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Havoc (54:10.237)
It was filled with Tide Pods. The doctor said the machine didn't really do much damage but the Tide Pods, got in deep. They're flowing through his blood.
Luciano (54:15.68)
Hahaha!
Matt (54:15.888)
Tiepods were a real problem. It was actually tied, not cocaine.
Luciano (54:19.914)
Not, yeah.
Luciano (54:24.947)
Yeah.
Matt (54:26.468)
got real deep. His blood is fish-prestead tide pods at this point. We're not sure how he's alive. It's very clean, but...
Luciano (54:29.229)
Hahaha
John Havoc (54:32.133)
It's clean! It's very clean, it smells amazing!
Luciano (54:32.246)
Yeah, it's very clean blood. Very clean.
Matt (54:37.574)
So, but then, but you're killing, like, punishment should be, like, scary. And, like, it sucks that their buddy dies, but, like, it kind of cleans up a loose end for them, because that was the one guy who was, like, kind of on the edge of, maybe he'd tell them or he was always nervous. Yeah. So problem solved. Like, you're just doing everybody a favor.
Luciano (54:48.493)
yeah.
Luciano (54:52.364)
He had talked to his wife about it. Yeah.
John Havoc (54:59.111)
But more importantly, it just... causes you more problems. Cause you're now... if this world had police, which we don't sure they do...
Luciano (55:04.651)
Well, yeah.
Matt (55:04.976)
Yes.
Matt (55:08.58)
If it did, well, okay, so no, have to do, Spencer, have to do this. He knows the police are incompetent. So you can't act like the police could be competent when everybody knows they're bad.
Luciano (55:09.29)
If this world had consequences.
Luciano (55:16.205)
Yeah.
John Havoc (55:20.274)
It's competent. It's a hospital. They show him on camera. So that he doesn't take a competent police officer to put that together.
Matt (55:25.488)
That's fair, but what are the cops gonna do about it?
Luciano (55:25.55)
Yeah.
John Havoc (55:32.421)
Arrest the man who's on camera murdering us! Let's see here...
Luciano (55:32.814)
Yeah.
Matt (55:34.874)
Who did the cops arrest?
Luciano (55:36.438)
Yeah, where are they gonna find him? Especially if he leaves the country or whatever with these? No, he didn't because he got shot in the leg by Ali
John Havoc (55:41.137)
But he didn't!
Matt (55:45.776)
But I want to, okay, so like we've talked through, like I want to know his long-term plan, right? So like from the point of it initially going wrong, so when the cocaine truck is stolen, what is his plan from there on out? Because a good plan has contingencies built in. If this doesn't work out this way, I'm going to do XYZ. So like, how does this all play out for him?
Luciano (55:58.039)
Right.
Luciano (56:09.198)
What what do you mean contingencies he barely had the plan what do you mean an alternative thing?
John Havoc (56:15.367)
mean, a smart move would have been when he got that text from them saying like, get out of there, if he went and ran to his nephew guy and was like, I saw some sketchy guys with guns, we gotta get out of here. And then it would look like he was a hero and I would have avoided all of this. But let's just say he wanted his nephew to die. He says he doesn't, he wanted that to make that lemonade out of these lemons that he's been handed and become a boss.
Luciano (56:28.278)
Yeah. Yeah.
Luciano (56:41.059)
Right.
John Havoc (56:43.581)
You should let him kill him, which happened, and then...
I would have like not made enemies out of those cops and try to
Luciano (56:49.463)
You fe-
But wait, the question is what was his plan, not what his plan should have been.
John Havoc (56:57.525)
I think his plan ended at like the truck being stolen. that didn't go well and all of his rest was gone. Now his next idea was, I don't know what his next plan was because all I got was he was going to kill the cop in the hospital and then.
Matt (56:58.148)
Yeah.
Luciano (57:03.522)
Jane's stolen. Yeah.
John Havoc (57:20.413)
somehow become the boss?
Luciano (57:21.844)
I think his plan... Yeah.
Matt (57:23.162)
He was going to, well he was going to fake, he was just gonna try to have this one blow over and be like, I don't know what happened. Your son, I don't know how your son got killed. I'll you find the man that did this and pin it on whoever. That was his plan. That was it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
John Havoc (57:31.323)
Haha, roo!
Luciano (57:33.055)
Yeah
Luciano (57:37.74)
Yeah, Charlie. That was Charlie he wanted to pin it on. Yeah. Yeah. But again, the not like if if to his mom had two cell to brain cells to rub together, which it looked like she did, she would have the moment when she looked back because she was grieving, right? So she was like, I just want to have revenge over my son dying. But the moment that was done, she was going to go like, wait a minute.
John Havoc (57:43.089)
Yeah, you wanted to put it on Charlie with,
Luciano (58:07.547)
None of this makes sense. Yeah.
Matt (58:07.992)
It's the same shit Walker did when it's just like, how was this, those guys when they had a pistol and this is clearly fucking fully automatic, yeah.
Luciano (58:14.82)
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
John Havoc (58:16.637)
That was frustrating throughout the whole movie. I'm like no one's saying that they didn't do it until like the last second where he's like we didn't do it and they're about to get shot. I was like they should have been saying that from the beginning.
Matt (58:21.668)
Yeah.
Luciano (58:22.125)
Yeah.
Luciano (58:27.542)
Maybe they were considering, maybe she had a lot of mana and she could shoot like rifle bullets out of that pistol. I don't know.
John Havoc (58:33.403)
That's true. That's a good point though. In this world, ammo does not matter. So maybe they thought those guns had enough bullets to shoot like an automatic bullet through the entire. It's all making sense. All I know is, Ching is fucking dumb as rock. I mean like, and the one, second he went to that hospital, I was like, what is your plan here? And there's no answer we can come up with.
Matt (58:34.124)
We don't know. We don't know. It's too dangerous.
Luciano (58:36.716)
You
Luciano (58:43.584)
It's the nano bullet theory that Matt is just... Yeah.
Luciano (58:52.52)
Yep. He had like, he had one, is very, very thin, like a very thin veil of a plan that anything could disrupt and he was like, whoop, can't do anything now it's disrupted.
Matt (58:53.766)
you
Matt (58:59.204)
No, there's nothing.
John Havoc (59:08.423)
But even that plan, I get it, but when he went to the hospital, I cannot even come up with any theory of what his plan was at that point.
Matt (59:08.548)
I- I don't-
Luciano (59:13.443)
No, it makes no fucking sense.
Matt (59:18.406)
The last thing I'm going to say here before we move on is that it's clear that Ching has a lot of corrupt triad people on his side with the crossfire, everybody dies situation that happens after Jake tries to shoot Charlie. Why couldn't he send one of them to the hospital? No, no, no, my bad. That's stupid. That's, that's fair. That's, that's right.
Luciano (59:26.744)
Yeah.
John Havoc (59:35.601)
No, no, no, now you're talking crazy. You do it yourself. He learned from the first time, you know, those guys couldn't steal the drugs from the truck, so he had to do it himself.
Luciano (59:36.544)
Yeah, no, no, you want to say you what you want something done poorly you do it yourself
Matt (59:50.182)
Don't trust the... Did he learn? No, he didn't. It's fine. It's fine. We're at the hour mark and so let's do what we always do and give this bad boy a rating. Our scale, as always, is the S tier. S is for the highest, F is for the lowest. I don't know, pick a letter in between and give us some sentences as to why that's believable. Spencer, you know what this movie's about.
Luciano (59:50.934)
That's actually fair. No.
John Havoc (59:53.949)
You learned the wrong lesson.
Luciano (01:00:14.254)
you
John Havoc (01:00:18.684)
I know this movie is like it when you look at all of it like the sum of its parts it is like so blatantly. Like a D C at best. But. Like nothing in this movie makes it seem like a chip, but when I watch that action scene. In the club, I enjoyed that more than most John Wicks fight scenes.
Luciano (01:00:42.83)
You
John Havoc (01:00:47.505)
I don't know why maybe it because it was more visceral and less like maybe I've become numb to John Wick fucking one tapping people But it just felt like way more Like I don't know if the guys from now that I knew he made the raid it all makes sense because I was like this these fights these are There are so much better than they have any right to be in this movie this movie's so bad And then it's just like also it pulls up like top tier fucking cool action so that in itself and the fact that it
Matt (01:01:09.84)
Ha ha ha
Luciano (01:01:09.983)
Hahaha!
John Havoc (01:01:17.115)
kept going like they had multiple top tier action scenes. I'm giving it a B. It's like, again, I don't know if I got fucking fooled, like tricked into thinking it was really bad in the first act that the shock of how good it was in the second half has like fucked my head up and tricked me into liking this movie. But I was just like, I was so pleasantly surprised that I'm giving it a B.
Matt (01:01:44.934)
All right, Luciano.
Luciano (01:01:47.406)
I had somewhat of a like inverted experience because I really enjoyed that washing machine scene so much that I was like, I started the movie, no expectation, didn't know what to expect of it. And then you get that weird sort of morose intro. was like, hey, where is this going? They're going to have Tom Hardy fucking monologuing. I don't want to hear that. And then you get that scene. I'm like, okay, I was wrong movie. I apologize. Please continue. Right.
And that, like, I'm not going to knock that fight scene was amazing. I think I actually rewound a couple of times to watch, like, certain scenes of it again. Because it was like, did he? Yeah, he tossed that thing and tossed the guy over while he was still bleeding up. That was great. So I was fine. But I got so progressively madder and madder and madder at the whole, like, stupidity of the whole thing.
Which I was fine with until the last scene. The last scene, I was actually really mad at that last scene with the way the Beaumont was shot and the whole thing was just like for effect. My boy! You're safe! You're safe, my boy! Keep the dream! But in talking with you guys about it, I actually... I found that I actually enjoyed it a little bit more than I thought originally. So I'm really torn, but I think...
John Havoc (01:02:53.425)
My boy! My boy!
John Havoc (01:03:01.521)
Guys, deception!
Luciano (01:03:15.756)
Just in light of the good parts, I think I'm going to agree with Spencer, gasp and give it a B. I was going to give it a C, but I think it was fun. I think that's the main thing.
Matt (01:03:20.87)
wow.
John Havoc (01:03:23.773)
You know what happened? You were thinking of the scene, you're gonna give it a C and then you thought about that scene where that in the club when the guy jumps at him and he grabs him and throws him through the glass and he goes right up the glass and he goes down two stories. That was so awesome.
Luciano (01:03:31.502)
Yes! No, The choreography of like that and then like it cuts to Mia and she's like dodging two guys. She punches a guy in the face, grabs his machete, like hacks him to bits and then hacks someone behind her. I was like, holy shit, what is that? So, yeah. Yeah.
Matt (01:03:34.15)
Yeah.
John Havoc (01:03:46.61)
Yeah, and just.
John Havoc (01:03:50.535)
Yeah.
with capes so out of left field.
Matt (01:03:55.928)
Yeah, listen, I think we're all on the same page. know, the movie was probably a C or D in terms of it wasn't a bad movie outside of those action sequences. Just wasn't his paint by. It's boring, right? You'd watch it like so much. You didn't watch Love Hurts and we watched Love Hurts and maybe coming off Love Hurts. It also set us up for just loving this bit. Love hurts. Yeah, like love hurts. The action was and the rest of the movie is like, huh? The fuck?
Luciano (01:04:07.842)
Yes.
Luciano (01:04:14.808)
I think that's it too, yeah.
Luciano (01:04:22.881)
Yeah.
Matt (01:04:24.47)
And so this movie at least had the decency of being like, Hey, these are the things that are happening. You know, they're, standard things you might I've heard of before, but they all make sense and they all flow. it's, you're just like, okay, yeah. Get me to the next action sequence. And like, like the start of the truck for the car race, I'm like, fuck yeah. All right. And like Luciano said, it's like, it would drag it a bit. And then they make it up, make up for it. And then a club like, 10 times over. And so like, it's a B like it's a fun action movie. like, I think I would just put the movie on to watch the club.
Luciano (01:04:54.058)
Yes, I was thinking about that just now. I wouldn't watch the movie again, but I would definitely watch that fight scene again. Yeah.
John Havoc (01:04:54.737)
Yeah, me too. you could skip a lot.
Matt (01:04:55.258)
club fight scene for like, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was, anybody asked me, it's you just set your brain to low power mode and just enjoy the sweet, sweet action.
John Havoc (01:05:00.837)
Me too.
Luciano (01:05:07.094)
Yeah.
John Havoc (01:05:08.605)
You know what it reminds you of? It reminds me of the first John Wick where it's like, the story is they killed his dog. And you're like, that's it. And that's the same as this movie. It's like, yeah, the story's whatever. But it's just an excuse to have some well-made action.
Luciano (01:05:13.325)
Yeah.
Matt (01:05:16.398)
Yeah, that's all I need.
Luciano (01:05:22.743)
Yeah.
And like, to me, John Wick is like an A or even an S, right? Because it's just, I find it better as a whole movie, but the action is comparable, I would say. With the first movie. Let's not talk about John Wick 4, but with the first movie.
Matt (01:05:32.88)
Yeah. Yeah.
John Havoc (01:05:33.159)
it is far better.
John Havoc (01:05:42.738)
Yeah, yeah.
Matt (01:05:44.154)
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think the world of John Wick is better. It's more fleshed out and it makes it more interesting. Yeah, yeah, 100%. All right.
John Havoc (01:05:47.557)
It's more interesting, yeah.
Luciano (01:05:47.786)
Yeah, well, no comparison. No comparison. Yeah, yeah.
John Havoc (01:05:52.155)
And can't read is better than than whatever the fuck Tom Hardy was doing with his New York accent. I'm so fucking. I just came from New York. the time. That that that that.
Matt (01:05:55.782)
Tom Hardy, he can talk. Whatever the fuck is his New York cockney Brooklyn accent. Ha ta ta ta ta. I came from New York ta ta ta.
Luciano (01:06:00.728)
Yeah, it is it is what it is. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is quite an indictment on the on the on an actor when you say, well, can you reverse this better?
John Havoc (01:06:13.089)
Yeah, that's true. I wanted more scenes with Tom Hardy. Hey, what about you boy? gonna save your boy. You saved my boy! You saved my dream!
Matt (01:06:13.176)
Luciano (01:06:22.958)
Imagine if that conversation happened with Bane and not with just Tom Hardy mumbling. That would have been much better. Yeah.
John Havoc (01:06:28.155)
Now we're talking. You want me to save your boy?
Luciano (01:06:33.144)
Save my boy! Save my boy! Save my boy and I won't blackmail anymore. Save him!
Matt (01:06:35.046)
Safety 3!
John Havoc (01:06:36.445)
What a lovely, lovely voice you have!
Luciano (01:06:41.644)
Yeah.
Matt (01:06:43.632)
Same with you!
John Havoc (01:06:44.445)
Same with you! It's beautiful! My boy!
Luciano (01:06:48.76)
Yeah.
Matt (01:06:50.054)
I think we have movie.
Luciano (01:06:52.27)
Yeah, we have Havoc 2.
John Havoc (01:06:56.187)
St. Louis Goose Mom walks in. Hey guys! What we doing here? Ed Finn.
Matt (01:06:57.28)
Luciano (01:06:58.683)
Hehehehehe
Matt (01:07:01.05)
Hmm
Matt (01:07:04.874)
On that note, we are going to watch a very different movie next week. We are going to watch the 2025. Who should I pick here? Let's go with Delroy Lindo vehicle sinners.
Luciano (01:07:17.46)
my god.
John Havoc (01:07:19.471)
How many S's in sinners? Okay.
Luciano (01:07:22.016)
No.
Matt (01:07:22.096)
Two S's, one at the beginning, one at the end.
Kind of like how many Michael B. Jordans are in this movie. There's two at the beginning and we'll see it. Yeah, two at the end. You know what? Maybe. This is, I did watch it already in the theater. It was a movie. I'm not going to say anything to ruin it for anybody. But it is Ryan Coogler, Michael B. Jordan. Yeah. So we're going to watch it. It's on streaming.
John Havoc (01:07:30.557)
Spoilers! With two S's.
Luciano (01:07:30.926)
Ooooo!
Is it each of them are the sinners? Is that what happens?
You've watched it already, haven't you? Okay.
John Havoc (01:07:54.75)
It's a phenomena. It's an original film that made money. What? I know.
Matt (01:07:56.666)
It did very well in the theaters. Yeah. A black-centric original film that made money.
Luciano (01:07:59.342)
What? In 2025? What's happening?
John Havoc (01:08:05.735)
Fuck yeah, man. That's refreshing.
Luciano (01:08:06.99)
Wow. That was the last one that we watched that was the Tyrone movie. That was the last one. Yeah. No, but that was a good movie.
Matt (01:08:13.285)
yeah, they cloned Tyrone. No, I did not. It was good. What about that Michael Jai white?
John Havoc (01:08:14.461)
Well that did make money.
It was a good movie. But what was last original movie that made money? That's a good question.
Matt (01:08:26.182)
What about that movie we watched? That Chris made us watch? What did Chris... Yeah! They didn't! The last original... The question is what constitutes an original movie? Because like... It gets... It gets... You know, it gets very particular on what is original and what is not.
John Havoc (01:08:26.439)
That didn't make money. Even Michael Jai White. Black dynamite?
Luciano (01:08:26.446)
Is a good question.
No, that didn't make money. Yeah, I don't think so.
John Havoc (01:08:35.837)
Didn't it?
John Havoc (01:08:41.62)
you know-
Luciano (01:08:42.123)
Yeah, that's true.
John Havoc (01:08:48.391)
Well, now it's like the only original movies that make money are like, the franchise is the director, Christopher Nolan. Like that's still almost like a franchise film because it's a Nolan film, you know?
Matt (01:08:55.864)
Yes. Yeah.
Luciano (01:08:57.178)
right, yeah.
Matt (01:09:01.484)
Even though, I gotta be honest with you, his films lately have been-
John Havoc (01:09:06.649)
Yeah!
Luciano (01:09:06.912)
I've yet to watch Tenet. Wow.
Matt (01:09:09.286)
Don't bother. Don't bother, you're watching Sinners this week. I haven't watched it, I'm just saying, you gotta focus. Sinners is the movie. Hey, listen, we'll cover that in a future podcast. Don't give away the skulls. One at beginning, one at the end.
John Havoc (01:09:13.117)
I've watched Tenet. It's a headache.
Luciano (01:09:16.776)
Hahaha!
John Havoc (01:09:17.895)
Tenet with two T's.
Luciano (01:09:20.27)
One at the beginning and one at the end. Yeah, it's a palindrome too.
John Havoc (01:09:22.065)
Yeah
Matt (01:09:25.062)
shut up. nope, it is not.
John Havoc (01:09:26.311)
So is Sinners. I meant so is Srenis. Srenis is a palindrome.
Luciano (01:09:29.922)
No, what? No, it's not.
Luciano (01:09:35.246)
Sret Srenis Srenis
Matt (01:09:35.276)
headers
Look it up. We're done. We have to go before anything else bad happens. We'll see you next time. Sinners, check it out.
